Forum Topic

Ask Sir Tony - an Electronics/Electrical Q & A thread

  • Ang main issue is that yung aftermarket, likely China-made power cable scam ang quality, isipin mo idedeclare kaya ng 2.4 kilowatts pero sa 500 watts pa lang umiinit na. Surely undersized yung copper cables sa loob, kung bibiyakin mo ang cord at meron kang wire stripper pwede mo i-"reverse assess" ang wire gauge using that tool. Dapat nga magbigay ka ng negative feedback sa seller kasi dangerous yan for people, baka maging dahilan para magkaroon ng sunog!

    In the case of the rice cooker, as long as it's a good, well-known brand then yung supplied power cord should be properly sized para sa wattage ng rice cooker. Of course kung cheap, unknown brand (especially kung binili rin online) eh all bets are off.


    Tama, kung kasama sa Rice Cooker, PSU na well known brand yung AC cable, sigurado naman na tama ang rating na nakalagay sa cord.

    Meron palang ganito "C13 connector", pwede mag DIY, buy na lang wire and plug.


  • Yes, mas maganda pa nga na gumawa na lang ng sariling power cable when in doubt sa mga binebenta. Mas madali kasi i-assess yung plugs and sockets, as long as makapal ang bakal assured ka ok siya. Ang wires/cables kasi pwedeng dayain easily, mukang ok pero ang kapal lang pala ng insulation tapos yung copper wire or cable sa loob manipis lang pala.
  • ^ He should by a 3-conductor royal cable to go with that C13 connector.
  • sir Peorth. pag line to line pala (110v+110V) na linya, pwede gumawa ng 110v outlet, gamit ang isang live at iga-ground na lang yung isang line sa lupa para maging 0 volts. ang linya sa amin kasi line to neutral (220v/0v), di yata pwede ang ganun setup, kailangan na talaga ng step-down transformer?
  • Bawal gumawa ng 110 V using line to ground, dapat line to neutral. Ang ground never used as part ng AC electrical circuit, violation yan ng electrical code. Yung only time allowed mag-conduct ng electricity ang ground is during temporary conditions kung saan gumagana ang ground to divert electricity. Examples would be ground fault conditions (e.g. hot conductor accidentally touching metal case ng appliance), diversion ng electrical current sa lightning strike, at diversion ng voltage spike ng surge suppressor through a metal oxide varistor bridging live-to-ground (L-G or L-PE). Maraming reasons for this, including yung fact na hindi reliable return path to step-down transformer ang ground (baka hindi 110 V makuha mo, and it might vary depende sa electrical resistance ng ground), pag-trip ng ground fault current interruptors/residual current devices (GFCI/RCD), etc.

    Note na marami namang Meralco residential installations na live/live/neutral ang wiring, check mo yung service drop (wires galing sa poste). Yung neutral yung uninsulated aluminum cable kung saan naka wrap around yung two live conductors (dual purpose yan, support for the copper cables and neutral at the same time). Sa tip na aluminum cable dapat may naka-bond na wire papuntang service panel or electrical meter (yun yung neutral). Unfortunately, may wiring scheme rin na line-line lang (110V + 110 V) at walang neutral, in which case kailangan mo step-down transformer to get 110 V. Hindi kasi consistent ang residential wiring scheme sa Pinas, unlike sa U.S. na laging line-line-neutral (split-phase). Yung reason for this is that standard voltage sa U.S. is 120 V (most appliances) at 240 V (high-wattage appliances like heaters). So to get both voltages mandatory ang line-line-neutral scheme.

    Sa provinces ang pinakauso na wiring is line to neutral, meaning solo 220 V conductor plus yung neutral via yung aluminum conductor.




    Pag ganito ang wiring ang only way to create 110 V is using a step-down transformer.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 10 2020, 11:17 AM
  • ganun po ba? dami kasi ako napapanood sa youtube na tutorial paano gumawa ng 110v gamit ang ground.
  • Naku po, na stress ako sa video na yan. Puro mali ang tinuturo! Hindi niya alam ang distinction ng neutral at ground, mali ang terminologies ("body ground", etc.). Ang masaklap pa, yung neutral wire galing sa service drop (kulay puti sa video) hindi yun ang ginamit para makagawa ng 110 volts, instead ground ang ginamit! Tapos yung neutral hindi bonded sa ground at the service panel kasi hindi isang busbar gamit niya pero tatlo na hiwalay. Pustahan tayo hindi yan licensed electrician pero electrician kuno na "monkey see, monkey do".

    Kung gusto mo matutunan ang difference ng neutral pati ground na sobrang linaw, kalimutan mo yang walang kwentang video at eto panoorin mo:


    Ang tama kasi sa split-phase 220 volt wiring ganito:
    1. Yung 2 hot wires ("line", 110 volts each) papunta yan sa separate busbars ng panel. Sa dalawang busbars na yan naka-bolt or plug ang miniature circuit breakers (MCBs), depends kung bolt-in or plug-in type ang panel. Pag residential typically plug-in ang ginagamit, pag industrial usually bolt-in.
    2. For 220 volts, dapat double pole MCB ang gagamitin para pag nagtrip ang breaker both hot wires mawawalan ng current. Ang single pole breaker pang 110 V yan sa split-phase kasi isang hot line lang ang kailangan putulin.
    3. Remember na never naglalagay ng fuse or circuit breaker sa neutral dahil 0 volts ang neutral.
    4. Ang neutral wire from service drop or meter connect to the neutral busbar ng main panel (ideal)
    5. Ang ground wire from grounding rod or any grounding system (e.g. Ufer ground using rebar) connect to the ground busbar ng main panel (ideal)
    6. Always remember that ang ground and neutral ay bonded only at a single point sa buong wiring ng bahay. Bawal mag-wire together ng ground and neutral at multiple points, dapat connected lang sila sa main service panel. Kung hiwalay ang neutral at ground busbars meron metal connector bridging the two busbars (like sa video sa link). Alternatively, pwedeng isang busbar lang for both neutral and ground pero only for the main panel. Kung may subpanel always hiwalay ang neutral and ground busbars.
    7. Ang complete wiring ng isang convenience outlet (wall receptacle) is hot, hot, neutral and ground for a total of 4 wires. Pwede mo i-modify ang outlet to 110 or 220 volts by picking line-neutral at line-line wiring respectively.
    8. Kung sure ka na 220 volts lang ang outlet forever, pwede i-omit ang neutral so 3 wires lang ang nakalatag: hot, hot, ground
    9. Kung sure ka na 110 volts lang ang outlet forever, pwede i-omit ang isang hot wire so 3 wires ang nakalatag: hot, neutral, ground

    Ok sana yung video nung "electrician" kung 1) yung puting neutral wire from service drop eh yun ang linatag niya to make 110 volts 2) yung ground wire kinonect niya sa neutral by wiring sa common terminal. Ang problem hindi niya maintindihan ang difference ng neutral at ground, akala niya interchangeable. Again, hindi pwede gumawa ng 110 V from ground, bawal yan. Sa split-phase wiring ang 110 volts is always one hot at one neutral, NEVER hot at ground. Pag 220 volts na line to neutral no way to get 110 volts except step-down transformer.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 10 2020, 05:45 PM
  • @all
    Thanks sa replies, also to BlackMoon na nagsuggest itry ang Rice cooker power cord. Left my PC running overnight hanggang ngayon, ok na ok parin cable. No need to buy a new one!

    I will be wary of buying cables from online stores now on. Also hindi nalang ako magwawala ng power cords na provided ng PSUs next time hehe. Sayang di nako makawrite ng review dun sa seller since matagal ko ng nabili itong cord.
  • ito sir Peorth, engineer daw siya. pareho lang ginawa nila nung first video. medyo mas simple lang to.
  • ^Ang tawag ko diyan DIY hacks na mga Pilipino. Eto yung tipong ginagawa kasi gumagana paminsan pero hindi electrically sound. To begin with si kuya engineer pinaguusapan ang "line to line" tapos assume kaagad na walang neutral eh ang dami naman ng bahay sa Pinas na may neutral sa line to line setups. Eh kung may neutral to begin with di hindi na kailangan gumawa ng DIY hackjob na pinakita niya.

    Siguro para hopefully maging clearer we need to go more technical. Pag split-phase (commonly called "line to line" sa Pinas) generally may neutral yan (with some exceptions dahil sa weirdness ng residential wiring sa Pinas). Yung full voltage ng split-phase system makukuha mo by using the two "hot" phase conductors. Sa atin ang isang phase conductor ay 110 volts, sa U.S. 120 volts. Sa split phase system yung two phases ay 180 degrees apart from each other:




    This diagram ay para sa U.S. (120/240 volts) pero the principles remain the same. Note na to get 240 volts (220 V sa Pinas) you need to use BOTH phase conductors ("hot" conductors) because ang voltage ay yung difference or distance between the phases.

    First part ng diagram:
    phase 1 = +120 volts, phase 2 = -120 volts
    Voltage = phase 1 minus phase 2
    120 volts minus -120 volts = 120 V + 120 V = +240 V

    Second part ng diagram:
    phase 1 = -120 volts, phase 2 = +120 volts
    Voltage = phase 1 minus phase 2
    -120 volts minus 120 volts = -240 V

    Dapat obvious sa diagram ang origin ng word na alternating current (AC). Makikita natin na nagswi-swing ang voltage from -240/220 volts to +240/220 volts at 50 or 60 times a second. Yung 50 or 60/sec ay tinatawag na utility frequency, measured in Hertz (Hz). Sa Pinas and U.S. ang utility frequency ay 60 Hz, pero maraming countries na 50 Hz. That's why commonly makikita mo ang appliance ratings ay voltage and utility frequency, e.g. "220-240 volts, 60 Hz".

    Now eto ang critical part, so pay attention closely. To get 120/110 volts sa diagram, dapat obvious na kailangan mo lang ng ONE phase conductor. Pero unlike sa 240/220 V, ang voltage ay hindi relative sa two phases, instead relative siya sa line sa gitna na labelled 0 (zero). Yung zero reference na yan ang tinatawag na NEUTRAL. That's why to get 110 volts sa Pinas you get one hot phase conductor at one neutral. Pag 220 volts, two hot phase conductors. Yung NEUTRAL na yan is connected sa step-down distribution transformer, na typically makikita mo sa utility poles. To be precise yung neutral is center-tapped sa transformer, kung pinanood mo yung naka-link na video earlier may konting discussion about it doon.




    Look at yung distribution transformer outputs. Left to right ay: phase conductor 1, neutral, phase conductor 2. Look carefully sa neutral (yung nasa gitna), siya yung bonded to yung transformer casing with a strap. Then trace yung wire niya carefully kung saan siya pupunta. Naka-clamp siya dun sa aluminum wire, kung saan nakapalupot yung two hot phase conductors. Yung neutral/aluminum wire na to is GROUNDED via another cable (nasa lower right corner ng picture). Kung susundan mo yan, yung cable na to is connected to a GROUNDING ROD sa base ng utility pole.

    Crude illustration to drive home the point:



    So from the distribution transformer tatakbo ang neutral aluminum wire at "hot" phase conductors sa mga poste, then pag papasok ng bahay nagiging service drop:




    Note that an NEUTRAL aluminum conductor ay bonded sa COPPER wire, tapos ang copper wire papasok sa weather head, then sa pipe paloob ng bahay. So from there on, siya na ang neutral na papunta ng service panel at ilalatag papuntang outlets. Note that at the MAIN SERVICE PANEL ang NEUTRAL ay bonded to GROUND provided ng GROUNDING ROD ng HOUSE. Hiwalay to sa grounding rod ng transformers at utility poles, pero sa Pinas maraming bahay walang sariling grounding rod!

    So, integrating everything, ano ang itsura ng 110 volt circuit?
    [Distribution transformer] ---> one "hot" phase conductor -----> service drop ---> main service panel --> outlet --> prong 1 ng outlet
    [Distribution transformer] --> neutral (aluminum wire) ---> service drop ---> copper wire neutral --> main service panel --> bonded to house grounding rod --> outlet --> prong 2 ng outlet
    Once nag-plug ka ng appliance or device sa outlet, yung prong 1 and prong 2 magiging electrically continuous na ang complete na ang electrical circuit!

    NOTE NA NEVER DUMADAAN ANG CURRENT THROUGH THE GROUND WIRE TO THE GROUNDING ROD sa 110 volt circuit under normal circumstances because lahat ng current na yan sa NEUTRAL dumadaan. Kaya paulit-ulit kong sinasabi na hindi ginagamit ang grounding rod sa 110 volt circuit ng split phase supply.

    YOUR QUESTION: Bakit ginagawa ng iba yung DIY hack na one hot phase conductor at ground to create 110 volts? Pwede ba ito?

    Ginagawa ito sa split-phase system na walang neutral na umaabot sa bahay, in other words two phase conductors lang ang supply. May ganyan kasi na setups, though nowadays mukang ang most ng Meralco wiring is split-phase with neutral. Or baka may neutral pala, pero ayaw gamitin ang neutral at instead ground ang ginagamit to get 110 V, which is plain idiotic to do.

    Balik tayo sa circuit. Workable ang 110 volt supply sa hot-ground system in some situations kasi ginagawang return path ang house ground pabalik sa distribution transformer. Malamang malilito ang mga people dito so ganito itsura nun:

    appliance plug --> one contact ng outlet --> ground wiring ---> wall panel --> grounding rod ---> earth --> distribution transformer grounding rod --> neutral (aluminum wire) --> distribution transformer

    In short ang nangyayari is that instead na ginagamit ang NEUTRAL conductor as return path to transformer, pinapadaan as lupa (earth). Tapos aakyat sa transformer through yung transformer grounding rod, which is bonded sa neutral cable, which goes back to yung neutral ng transformer.

    Ano ang problem ng ganitong setup? Ang major problem dito is dependent ang voltage/current ng ng DIY 110 volts sa 1) quality ng grounding 2) distance at grounding ng distribution transformer. Kung poor grounding at malayo ang transformer sablay ang mga resulta. Kung gusto mo ng proof, tignan mo tong post galing sa comments section ng video na pinost mo. Sinundan niya ang sistema nung "electrician" at eto naging resulta:

    sir.. nagawa po namin itong system nyo sa bahay namin kaso po parang mahina ang supply ng 110 di ko pa alam kung mahina ang grounding kasi ginamit lang namin ung nakabaon nang rod ng meralco.. pero di ako sure kung may 8 ft ba yung lalim nun.. may tv ako na 155 Watts na pag sinaksak ko namamatay din bigla.. then ginamitan ko ng transformer na 150 Watts ayun gumana.. tapos may mga stand fan din ako na mababagal ang ikot. may isang fan ako na 90 watts na mahina ang ikot pag sa 110 outlet pero naging normal na at lumakas na ang ikot nung ginamitan ko ng transformer..


    Kitang kita dito ang problem. Kung may multimeter at clamp tester mas makikita pa kasi may readings ka na. Hindi stable ang current/voltage kaya nagloloko ang appliances ng nag post ng comment. Pero nung gumamit siya ng step down transformer umayos. Yan ang problema ng "fake 110 volts" using grounding rod.

    Meron bang situation na reasonable gumawa ng hot to ground to get 110 volts? Personally hindi ko siya gagawin, kung walang neutral conductor (which happens sa ibang installations) then gumamit ng STEP DOWN TRANSFORMER. Kung makulit talaga at nagpupumilit then most likely matino ang current/voltage ng hot-ground 110 V kung malapit talaga ang distribution transformer. May gumawa ng ganyan na nabasa elsewhere, ang grounding rod niya sinuksok sa tabi ng grounding rod ng transformer. Dahil dito halos electrically continous sila.

    Lastly, one reason para hindi gumawa ng ganitong system is that kung mag-install ka ng ground fault circuit interruptors (GFCI), also called residual current devices (RCD), magti-trip yan dahil may current na pinapaunta sa earth. Yung devices na to are meant to protect from electrocution sa wet areas like bathrooms, dirty kitchen, etc. Pero pag naglagay ka ng hacked 110 V hindi na balanse ang current na dumadaan sa kanila, so siguradong magti-trip yung GFCI/RCD at magiging useless ang outlet(s) na protected nito.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 11 2020, 02:00 AM
  • ayun, malinaw na. pwede gawin i-ground ang isang wire pero hindi reliable.

    natanong ko ito kasi naalala ko, may nagkwento sa akin na may pinuntahan daw siyang bayan dito sa pinas na isang wire lang ang nakakabit sa poste ng kuryente at papunta sa mga bahay. 1980's yata yung sabi nya. isang linya galing sa poste at yung isang linya , nakakabit sa ground. ang ginagawa ng mga tao, palagi daw nilang binubuhusan ng tubig yung lugar na nakabaon ang ground.
  • Kung gusto mo ng proof, tignan mo tong post galing sa comments section ng video na pinost mo. Sinundan niya ang sistema nung "electrician" at eto naging resulta:

    sir.. nagawa po namin itong system nyo sa bahay namin kaso po parang mahina ang supply ng 110 di ko pa alam kung mahina ang grounding kasi ginamit lang namin ung nakabaon nang rod ng meralco.. pero di ako sure kung may 8 ft ba yung lalim nun.. may tv ako na 155 Watts na pag sinaksak ko namamatay din bigla.. then ginamitan ko ng transformer na 150 Watts ayun gumana.. tapos may mga stand fan din ako na mababagal ang ikot. may isang fan ako na 90 watts na mahina ang ikot pag sa 110 outlet pero naging normal na at lumakas na ang ikot nung ginamitan ko ng transformer..

    sir , di ko makita, pinagtyagaan ko na i-scroll hanggang sa last comment, hehe. dami comments eh, mahigit 1,000.
  • ^Mahirap hanapin yung comment na yan kasi parang reply siya sa ibang comment, kailangan mo expand yung replies para makita. Medyo nasa baba siya ng lahat ng comments. Pero verbatim ko na man pinaste dito except for questions niya, 2 questions ata yun. Note na si kuya electrician masipag sumagot ng comments PERO pag hindi niya alam ang sagot di niya sinasagot!


    natanong ko ito kasi naalala ko, may nagkwento sa akin na may pinuntahan daw siyang bayan dito sa pinas na isang wire lang ang nakakabit sa poste ng kuryente at papunta sa mga bahay. 1980's yata yung sabi nya. isang linya galing sa poste at yung isang linya , nakakabit sa ground. ang ginagawa ng mga tao, palagi daw nilang binubuhusan ng tubig yung lugar na nakabaon ang ground.


    Kung service drop (wires from poste going into house) yan imposible naman na single wire lang. Hindi ka pwede bumuo ng complete circuit to transformer using a single wire, ang minimum is two. Like I said earlier, sa province uso ang "line to neutral", this is a 2-wire system na may isang 220-volt phase conductor at isang neutral. Baka naman JUMPER yan sa phase conductor tapos dahil wala silang jumper sa neutral ginagawa nilang return path ang grounding rod.

    Also, isa pang clarification, hindi necessary na yung grounding rod ng bahay malapit sa grounding rod ng pole-mounted distribution transformer mismo. Kasi ang neutral (aluminum wire) galing sa neutral ng transformer habang dumadaan yan sa mga poste grounded per utility pole. That's why may makikita kang grounding rod and cable sa gilid ng poles. Naka-bond yan sa neutral at every pole, so that yung neutral is actually grounded at multiple points. Kung yung grounding rod ng bahay is malapit sa grounding rod ng poste (not necessarily yung may transformer) then most likely maganda ang voltage ng hackjob 110 volts. So kung meron talagang makulit na gusto gumawa ng ganito, ang only advice ko is to put the grounding rod as near as possible sa grounding rod ng utility pole.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 17 2020, 03:45 AM
  • Kung service drop (wires from poste going into house) yan imposible naman na single wire lang. Hindi ka pwede bumuo ng complete circuit to transformer using a single wire, ang minimum is two.
    pero, ganun daw talaga setup dun. kung di nagsisinungaling yung nakausap ko. kasi nakita daw nya mismo. sabi nya, binubuhusan nila ng tubig yung ground. baka ngayon, wala na yung ganun. 1980s pa daw yun eh. baka malayo yung lugar, nilagyan lang ng linya ng kuryente para sa mga ilaw.
  • Well, malamang primitive electrification system yan, baka single supply na walang return path na conductor kaya ground ang gamit. Kung binubuhusan ng tubig ang ground ibig sabihin masyado mataas ang resistance ng earth. Putting water sa soil decreases yung grounding resistance, so that mas better ang function ng ground. Reasons for high grounding resistance is baka masyado short ang grounding rod and/or nasa klase ng lupa. Actually pwede sukatin ang resistance ng ground, in ohms, with a special meter, medyo hassle lang gawin. Minimum length ng grounding rod ay 8 feet. Kung masyado parin mataas ang resistance with an 8-foot rod then just drive another rod (or more) para mas maging effective ang ground. Or kung may reinforced concrete foundation ang bahay, pwede gamitin ang exposed reinforcing bar (rebar) as ground, tawag diyan ay Ufer ground.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 11 2020, 04:14 PM
  • @Peorth

    Ilang watts ang max and safe sa 10awg size wire sa bahay? tama ba na 220v x 30A = 6600w?
  • Based on the Philippine Electrical Code:

    Table 3.10.1.16 Allowable Ampacities of Insulated Conductors Rated 0 Through 2000 Volts, 60°C Through 90°C (140°F Through 194°F), Not More Than Three Current-Carrying Conductors in Raceway, Cable, or Earth (Directly Buried), Based on Ambient Temperature of 30°C (86°F)
    <click here for link>

    For 10 AWG (5.5 mm^2 or 2.6 mm diameter) copper wire the ampacity depends on the wire type:
    Types TW and UF - 30 amps
    Types RHW, THHW, THW, THWN, XHHW, USE, ZW - 35 amps
    Types TBS, SA, SIS, FEP, FEPB, MI, RHH, RHW-2, THHN, THHW, THW-2, THWN-2, USE- 2, XHH, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW- 2 - 40 amps

    Yung power (watts) computation mo tama, multiply mo lang 220 volts with the ampacity to get the maximum wattage na kaya i-handle ng wire.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 13 2020, 09:33 PM
  • Mga sirs, tanong naman napansin ko kc meron chirping noise sa tv every time meron magpapatay ng ilaw.
    Ano po ba iyon? at ano ang solution? Thanks!
  • Based on the Philippine Electrical Code:

    Table 3.10.1.16 Allowable Ampacities of Insulated Conductors Rated 0 Through 2000 Volts, 60°C Through 90°C (140°F Through 194°F), Not More Than Three Current-Carrying Conductors in Raceway, Cable, or Earth (Directly Buried), Based on Ambient Temperature of 30°C (86°F)


    thanks!
  • Mga sirs, tanong naman napansin ko kc meron chirping noise sa tv every time meron magpapatay ng ilaw.
    Ano po ba iyon? at ano ang solution? Thanks!


    Nangyayari ba to kapag on/off sa isang ilaw lang or several? Most likely dahil to sa impulse noise, meaning yung radiofrequency (RF) interference generated ng electrical arc during switching on/off. Pwede napi-pickup ng TV through the antenna but paminsan dumadaan sa AC lines, in which case pwede ayusin by plugging yung TV sa hiwalay na electrical line from yung ilaw.

    For the first possibility , kung one switch lang ang cause, baka luma na at excessive ang sparking sa loob causing yung interference. In this case, pwede subukan palitan ang switch. For the second possibility, pwedeng subukan ihiwalay yung electrical circuit ng light at TV. This means na dapat i-plug ang TV sa socket na hindi common ang linya sa ilaw. Paano mo malalaman to? Kung pinatay mo circuit breaker or remove ang fuse ng electrical line ng ilaw at patay rin ang TV ibig sabihin iisa ang ginagamit nila na line. Dapat separate circuit breaker/fuse ang nagko-control ng socket ng TV at ng ilaw.
  • @Peorth, thanks sa reply sir.

    Naka hiwalay naman ang line ng wall outlet at light - i double checked this already.
    Hindi rin kasi consistent yung chirping sound minsan lang. Will observe further.
  • Hi Sir

    Need ko sa help niyo. May 3 stage Battery Charger na pumotok ng malakas. then no power. Baka pwede pa ito maayos.
    Binuksan ko para makita sa loob yung sira.








    I hope matulungan niyo ako
    Thanks

    -- edited by Paul2xx on Nov 25 2020, 05:50 PM
  • Mukang ok yung Cotek charger na yan, meron kasing bulk, absorption and float charging, ideal for lead-acid batteries para maganda yung charging.

    Hindi masyado clear sa pic pero yung problem ba mukang nasa transformer? Kasi wala akong makita na usual burn marks ng failed or shorted out electronic components. Yung parang yellowish stuff sa taas kasi ng isang transformer pwede kasing flux lang or mounting glue. Kung "generic" components lang ang problem like capacitors or resistors then madali lang palitan. Ang problem would be kung manufacturer-specific yung parts, yung transformers sa picture baka ganun kasi may code ng manufacturer mismo na naka-sticker sa part. Sa ganyan na cases yung only remedy is ipa-service sa manufacturer mismo kung meron available na repair service. Maybe pwede ka mag-inquire sa kanila, based sa Taiwan ang Cotek (http://www.cotek.com.tw). Or maybe kung may kilala ka na electronics engineer na kaya i-figure out yung circuitry, I doubt yung run-of-the-mill repairmen ng TV at radyo kaya yung ganyang klaseng electronics.

    -- edited by Peorth on Nov 25 2020, 11:13 PM
  • Sa nakita ko yung parang transformer ng bulge siya. makita mo sa picture 4 naka bulge yung transformer. Tapos pala yung sa picture 5. natangal yung plastic na brown. binalik kolang. parang fuse yata yung loob may wire. ito yung nag bigay ng malakas na pop. parang pumutok ng firecracker.

    Na contact ko nga Cotek. kaso USA ang support. Hindi sila nag repair or benta part. ang offer nila discount if bibili ako ng kapalit.

    Baka sakali lang pwede pagawa ito. gawing kong backup nalang.sayang kasi.


    Thanks pala sa reply @peorth

    -- edited by Paul2xx on Nov 26 2020, 09:07 AM
  • I see, nung tinitignan ko nga mukang bulged yung transformer pero interestingly hindi mukang sunog, yung tipong may black na parang burst pattern. Malas nga lang na hindi usual stuff like resistor or capacitor ang problem. Actually naisip ko rin kung pwede i-rewind ng transformer, maybe pwede i-estimate yung number of turns based sa existing. Kaso without a detailed spec sheet mahirap na, kasi hindi mo alam kung anong expected voltage output ng transformer. So that kahit may pang-test ka ng voltage hindi rin useful.
  • So malamang custom transformer ito. mukang mahihirapan na ayusin ito. Madadagdagan na naman ang collection ko.

    Thanks ulit @Peorth sa tulong mo....
  • Mga boss, may tanong lang po ako. Nagpagawa ako ng grounded na wall socket/outlet at may gusto lang ako itanong kung ok yung ginawa nila. Bale yung outlet sa plywood wall siya and ang alam ko po is kailangan niya ng utility box enclosure. Pero ang sabi ng electrician na gumawa ng outlet dito di na daw kailangan at mas maganda daw ang mica tube. Ganun din po daw ang ginagawa sa mga building na hindi cemented ang wall. Ito po itsura:




    More pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/uZzPLgk

    Licensed electrician po daw ang gumawa ng trabaho at gusto ko din naman sila paniwalaan out of respect dahil dito na daw sila tumanda sa trabaho na ito, pero hindi po kasi mawala wala ang tanong sa isip ko. Gusto ko po sana makakuha ng clarification kung safe po ito or kung hazardous pala. Mas importante po kasi sa akin na safe ito.

    Maraming salamat po sa makakatulong.

    -- edited by genyou on Dec 23 2020, 07:14 AM
  • Hindi ako electrician pero eto ang "common sense" opinion ko. Yung plywood wall, highly flammable yan. So kung iko-compare mo ang convenience outlet (CO) (wall sockets) na embedded sa concrete wall versus plywood obviously iba ang fire hazard.

    Paano ba nagkakaroon ng electrical fires? First, pwede masira ang insulation ng wires at magdikit, causing a short circuit. For example, meron daga na nginatngat yung insulation ng wire then nagdikit yung wires directly or dahil may something conductive na nadikit sa both wires. Second, masyado maraming appliances nakasaksak sa isang outlet. Ang tawag dito ay overload or overcurrent. Dahil sa excessive current na dadaloy sa wires, iinit sila, matutunaw ang insulation then pwede magliyab anything na nasa tabi ng wires. Ang ganitong situation ay iniiwasan mangyari using overcurrent protection devices like fuses (older) and circuit breakers (more modern).

    A second cause, na often hindi familiar sa most people is yung arc fault phenomenon. In fact, according sa U.S. estimates eto ang mas common cause ng fires at 50-75% ng electrical fires ay dahil dito. Simply put, pag naging loose or corroded na ang electrical connection nagkakaroon ng intermittent contact, causing arcing (sparking). Yung arc/spark na to is very hot, at pwede easily mag-ignite ng flammable materials. To protect against arc faults, pwede mag-install ng arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI). Per the Philippine Electrical Code (PEC), effective 2014 dapat lahat ng dwelling unit bedrooms protected ng AFCI.

    Note na despite meron tayong PEC, extremely poor ang compliance. For example, sa U.S. kung nagpatayo ka ng bahay kahit sa isang liblib na lugar pupuntahan ka ng inspectors to inspect things like plumbing and wiring. AFAIK sa Pinas walang ganyan, at kung meron man eh konting bribe ayos na. Second, ang dami ditong fake electricians, natuto lang sa "monkey see, monkey do". Ang haba ng experience ay pwedeng irrelevant kasi pwede 20 years na siyang mali ang ginagawa! At kahit licensed electrician or engineer paminsan mali parin ang ginagawa. For example, meron Pinoy engineer sa Youtube na may video about creating 110 volts using a grounding rod kahit na hindi acceptable ang practice na to. Hindi lang siya, meron pang isang electrician na ganyan ang tinuturo, so sila pareho nagkakalat ng maling information! To begin with dapat nagsimula sila sa discussion kung meron neutral (common sa Meralco installations), pero super sablay both videos kasi di man pinagusapan to.

    In short, napakababa ng quality ng electrical code compliance sa Pinas, and big part of this is yung mga implementers (electricians, engineers, etc.) eh mahilig sa shorcuts at wrong practices! Kung baga, ang mentality na "pwede na yan". So kung truly compliant sa Philippine Electrical Code ang protection devices sa isang bahay, ano nag ineexpect mong makita? Eto ay:
    1. Overcurrent protection -- fuses and circuit breakers
    2. Ground fault protection -- ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) for places with high shock hazard like bathrooms
    3. Arc fault protection -- arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) for dwelling unit bedrooms (2014 onwards)
    4. Grounded convenience outlets - dapat may ground ang mga outlet, typically supplied by one or more grounding rods.

    Sa Pinas, common na makita lang #1 at tapos na ang usapan!

    Going back to your setup, obviously high fire hazard yan because of the plywood. Dapat may outlet box yung outlet to protect the wiring and to shield yung plywood from arc faults na pwede mag-originate from the convenience outlet. Second, hindi ako convinced na acceptable ang mica tubing. Hindi siya mentioned sa PEC at never ko siya nakita sa ANY discussion about residential electrical conduits. Ang laging nasa discussions and references lang na commonly seen sa Pinas ay metallic conduits (pipes) and for nonmetallic ones, rigid PVC pipe and flexible PVC conduits. NEVER mentioned ang mica tubing sa usapang nonmetallic conduits for residential wiring . AFAIK, ang mica tube ginagamit lang for electrical devices/appliances especially pag kailangan i-protect ang power cord from heat like in hair dryers, flat irons, etc.

    Again, di ako ako electrician but from my readings tingin ko violation ng electrical code yung trabahong pinakita mo. Specifically 1) absence of outlet box to protect convenience outlet 2) use of conduit material na hindi acceptable. Personally, kung gusto mong highly secure yung convenience outlet na yan use a metal outlet box and metallic conduit (i.e. metal pipe). Sa ceiling ng bahay namin (plywood) lahat ng wires dumadaan sa metal pipes and terminated sa metal junction boxes, walang exposed wire anywhere. Even yung concrete-embedded convenience outlets namin ay protected with metal outlet boxes. Alteratively, pwede rin nonmetallic (PVC), though tingin ko better to use the rigid PVC conduit kesa yung flexible.

    Lastly, hindi ka dapat mahiya at sundin ang recommendation nung electrician, especially kung may doubts ka. Kasi bahay mo yan, di naman sa kanya. Any consequences ng maling installation sayo mangyayari. You can always insist on something na mas protected/better, kahit tingin niya "ok na" yung ginagawa niya. IMHO, ipa-ulit mo yan, kung nahihiya ka pagawa sa kanya then hanap ka na iba PERO from the get go sabihin mo na kung gusto mo: enclosed system using metallic or non-metallic tubing, para hindi na siya mag-cut ng corners sa tinging niyang "pwede na" which is sakit ng trabahong Pinoy!
  • Maraming salamat po. I enjoyed reading your answers and it made me more confident in what I've been wanting to ask from my electricians. Very thankful. Previously thought I'd only be seen as being too sensitive or 'maselan' in a country where safety doesn't seem to be priority. Especially when I'm not sure if the price I am paying them warrants all of my scrutiny.

    Yun nga din po iniisip ko, mag hanap ng ibang electrician that will at least encapsulate the outlet inside a utility box. Parang mas sasakit po yata kasi ulo ko pag nag reach out ulit ako sa electrician na iyon kasi hindi favourable experience ko sa kanila nung pumunta dito para magkabit.

    Ang explanation po kasi nila sa mica tubing is if ever sumabog daw hindi daw basta basta masisira or makakalusot sa mica tubing unlike plastic PVC utility box na pwede yata matunaw? But I'm not sure how that checks out kasi there's wire coming out of the receptacle na hindi covered ng mica tube. I just agreed since I was trusting their word being licensed electricians and the person I went to vouched for them. It seems like I should have exercised more caution.

    May tanong lang din po ako sa isang punto na nabangit niyo po kasi curious din ako:

    Second, masyado maraming appliances nakasaksak sa isang outlet. Ang tawag dito ay overload or overcurrent. Dahil sa excessive current na dadaloy sa wires, iinit sila, matutunaw ang insulation then pwede magliyab anything na nasa tabi ng wires. Ang ganitong situation ay iniiwasan mangyari using overcurrent protection devices like fuses (older) and circuit breakers (more modern).


    Tinanong ko po kasi ito sa electrician na nagkabit ng outlet. Akala ko po kasi kailangan ingatan ang outlet dahil pwede mag overload tulad ng sabi niyo, at ito din po ang rason kung bakit nagpagawa ako ng bagong outlet kasi sa kwarto ko isa lang ang outlet at madami nakakabit. Minsan pa nga napapagamit ako ng daisy chaining which is supposedly bad (pero sabi din ng electrician hindi daw basta makapal yung wiring ng extension cord, but I wasn't sold on that thought).

    Ang pagkakaintindi ko po kasi ang maximum load na kaya ng isang outlet ay dipende sa circuit na nakakabit siya. Sa isang circuit po daw around 2200 watts maximum ang kaya bago mag trip. Then ang bawat outlet po daw ang sabi niya ng una 100w max load daw puwede, pero sabi ko "ah oo nga po, nagpagawa din ako ng bagong outlet kasi sumosobra ng 100w ang gamit ko sa outlet na luma" then sabay sabi niya ok lang daw yun kahit sumobra. I gave an example of 300w load at sabi nila pwede. At that point parang feeling ko po wala mapupuntahan usapan kaya nag agree nalang ako. Parang di din po kasi sila open to much questions. Trabaho lang.

    So, sa pagkakaalam niyo po ano po ang recommended na load per outlet? Yung parehong outlet ko po kasi sa kwarto sa iisang circuit nakakabit. (Which I was told has 2200w load capacity)

    A second cause, na often hindi familiar sa most people is yung arc fault phenomenon. In fact, according sa U.S. estimates eto ang mas common cause ng fires at 50-75% ng electrical fires ay dahil dito. Simply put, pag naging loose or corroded na ang electrical connection nagkakaroon ng intermittent contact, causing arcing (sparking). Yung arc/spark na to is very hot, at pwede easily mag-ignite ng flammable materials. To protect against arc faults, pwede mag-install ng arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI). Per the Philippine Electrical Code (PEC), effective 2014 dapat lahat ng dwelling unit bedrooms protected ng AFCI.

    Two questions po:

    1. Regarding the spark, this is separate from the spark we occasionally see when plugging to an outlet right?

    2. Upon doing a quick search, AFCI is a breaker right? If so, to incorporate AFCI to my outlets I need to replace the current breaker where my wires are attached with this AFCI breaker?

    I also saw a post claiming that PEC withdrew the rule because existing AFCI were found to be incompatible with Philippine specifications. Not sure if true.

    - Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) in the Philippines will not work since AFCI was manufactured as per UL standard requires 120V to power-up its electronic component.

    - Installation of Arc Fault Detector Device (AFDD) in the Philippines will not work since AFDD was manufactured as per IEC standard which is designed for 50hz frequency used. AFDD is designed to detect 50 cycle waveform for analysis.

    In the Philippine Electrical Code, the AFCI mandatory requirements has been deleted due to non-availability for Philippines specifications

    Source: https://www.facebook.com/ProfessionalElectricalEngineer01/photos/pb.1124780487689150.-2207520000../1555749681258893/

    AFAIK sa Pinas walang ganyan, at kung meron man eh konting bribe ayos na. Second, ang dami ditong fake electricians, natuto lang sa "monkey see, monkey do". Ang haba ng experience ay pwedeng irrelevant kasi pwede 20 years na siyang mali ang ginagawa!

    Dito nga din po ako natatakot. Sa YouTube there are educational videos on electricals that I watch so I at least have basic ideas and understanding when an electrician is doing his work here. Pag dating ko sa comments may mga nagsasabi na dahil sa video na yun pwede na sila maging electrical contractor for others. While one may be able to learn how to replace an outlet in a video, I don't think I want to pay someone who simply learned from a video... If that's how it's going to be then my uncle who knows the basics can do the same job for free or less. Minsan kasi I don't think every situation is going to be straightforward. I or someone else who watched the video may be able to replace an outlet, but neither of us would be able to see if there's anything amiss. For example in my shower room when I had the light switch replaced the wiring looks black instead of copper. Had to cut and expose the hidden part of the wire that's still copper.

    Parang yan na nga din po iniisip ko when the person who recommended me the electrician (I found him on Carousell) vouched for the electricians he brought me. Tumanda na daw sila sa trabaho. I just didn't have the guts the prod further since it would be seen as an insult and I didn't have the heart to get into an argument. I was just thinking na maybe they have been lucky that nothing they worked on for decades reportedly went awry or they didn't get to hear it.

    For example, meron Pinoy engineer sa Youtube na may video about creating 110 volts using a grounding rod kahit na hindi acceptable ang practice na to. Hindi lang siya, meron pang isang electrician na ganyan ang tinuturo, so sila pareho nagkakalat ng maling information! To begin with dapat nagsimula sila sa discussion kung meron neutral (common sa Meralco installations), pero super sablay both videos kasi di man pinagusapan to.

    Palong palo po lahat ng sinasabi niyo. I also think the same, but didn't have the credibility (only started learning about electrical this month) to confidently share my thoughts. And I think I am familiar with the videos kasi for the past week I have been mass watching such videos purely for educational purposes so I can protect myself better from phoney electricians in case that happens. I just wanted to avoid hiring someone who is doing work based off YouTube for example.

    At this point I didn't get answer from any electricians about the kind of Meralco line we have. I was told that we don't have a three-phase so it's probably single phase, but then I don't know if this means we have a hot/neutral wiring where the neutral is earthed. Nakita ko kasi sa labas ng poste namin meron grounding rod ng Meralco. And may white wire sa meter namin which I was told is ground... Pero ang sabi sa akin tumawag daw ako sa Meralco kasi 'disconnected' daw ang ground namin and pointed to a bunch of wiring atop of the poste. Sa kabit bahay daw namin di naman daw disconnected. So don't know if the neutral is earthed, and if it is, then it probably doesn't work if it's 'disconnected' or putol.

    This is an interesting (or frightening) case because currently my outlet's ground is screwed to my metal panel board. I'm freaking out kasi ang pagkakaalam ko pwede mag overheat or worse electricute dahil ang discharge ay doon mapupunta. I don't know if the screw they screwed it on is bonded, or if the panel board is earthed/grounded. I was just assured that this ground will protect my devices in case of a surge. Though they offered me to 'extend' the current ground wire and attach it to the grounding rod of Meralco sa poste outside. I'm not sure if that's safe or allowed by Meralco...

    At first I asked them if they were going to ground my outlet by using a grounding rod, but wasn't sure what materials are required like is it going to be a rebar or one of those grounding rods they sell on Shopee. I was going to rely on what they know kasi to begin with I don't know where the grounding rod should be impaled. For example the area near my panel board sometimes gets wet, so not sure if that will introduce a hazard.

    Pero ang sabi nila di na daw kailangan?? So they screwed my ground wire to the panel board. I am so confused. Not to mention I am even more confused because I've read somewhere na just because there's no third wire it doesn't mean the outlet isn't grounded (as long as the CORRECT implementation has been made, which is a coin flip unless you have a really good electrician) which is presumably from the prior knowledge that some neutral line here in the PH is earthed...

    I originally required a grounded outlet to be installed kasi it's the only chance I will have to have one without destroying the rest of the house to rewire existing outlets. And the surge protectors I use require the presence of ground or 'warranty' will be void.

    Ang laging nasa discussions and references lang na commonly seen sa Pinas ay metallic conduits (pipes) and for nonmetallic ones, rigid PVC pipe and flexible PVC conduits.

    Ah... Yun dito po kasi ginawa nila nakatago sa moulding PVC that is glued on the other side of this plywood wall. Para di lang daw mahila ng bata yung #12 THHN wires. I think that was the reason specified and not anything to do with the potential overheating of the wires for instance. Normally po kasi ang nakikita ko dito sa bahay orange tube PVC, particularly yung split-type AC ko na nakadirect sa circuit breaker. And somehow the green grounded wire naka-screw sa panel board.

    I was already losing hope with all the different electricians I have hired so far. Every time I mention them if they are familiar with whole house surge protection (along with other electrical safety practices that are apparently not popular here) they tell them hindi uso, even for grounding outlets. Sabi nila sa akin mostly prop lang ang third prong, at hindi din uso ground dito. So I never bothered asking them to make me a grounded outlet since I figure if I insist they might cave but do a halfed-ass job just to satisfy me and pray that I don't know whether or not they've done a proper job. Meanwhile, this other electrician that worked on my grounded outlet, maybe I should have known when they kept asking what the grounded outlet was going to be for... I was going to say "safety" to them originally, but I was dreading the standard reply where the question is at risk of sounding like a joke to their ears. So I just told them my surge protector's warranty requires a ground (which it does). And that's probably why I ended up with the grounded wire screwed to my panel board (or circuit breaker box) assuring me it will do a fine job against surge. I don't have high hopes for it because of the other decisions they've made, but admittedly I'd still be gutted if it turns out to be a flop. The job would have been a pointless expense then even after several electricians.

    Iba iba din kasi sinasabi ng ilang electricians na pinapunta ko sa bahay. The first electrician, nagtratrabaho daw siya sa mga condo at ang mga bago daw na condo hindi daw grounded ang mga outlet at 'normal' daw ang ganun. Ang second electrician naman sabi mali ang first electrician kasi grounded daw outlets ng mga condo. I'm inclined to believe nalang kasi IIRC three-phase at least and power ng mga building.

    Lahat din ng electrician na pumunta dito sa bahay hindi pamilyar sa GFCI (or EL Guard) outlets kasi gusto ko sana magpakabit sa kitchen at bathroom. Hindi ko alam kung unicorn ba talaga mga yan dito or di ako pinalad sa mga nahanap ko.

    Pasensya din po sa madaming tanong ko. Masyado lang po ako naging curious at engaged. :) OK lang po sa akin na kahit ano lang ang gusto niyo sagutin. Maraming salamat sa pagbasa.

    -- edited by genyou on Dec 26 2020, 06:05 PM
  • ^
    Buti pa yung electrician namin, sya pa yung nag-insist ng GFCI. Sa industrial nagtatrabaho dati kaya mataas ang standards.

    Kaso kuripot si tatay. :I